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Encyclopedia > Venedes

The Baltic Veneti (alternatively also called the Vistula Veneti) were an ancient Indo-European people living in contemporary Poland, along the rivers of Oder and the Vistula. The Oder River (Czech/Polish: Odra, German: Oder, Ancient Latin: Viadua, Viadrus, Medieval Latin: Odera, Oddera) is a river in Central Europe. ... The Vistula (Polish: ) is with 1,047 kilometers (678 miles) the longest river in Poland. ...

Contents

Ethnic character of the Veneti

The Veneti are believed to have been originally a centum Indo-European people dwelling in the area of contemporary Poland. Their heritage is attributed to Pre-Slavic hydronyms found in the Vistula and Oder river basins. To a certain extent, these hydronyms fall within the scope of Old European hydronyms established by Hans Krahe (see Old European hydronymy). Centum is the collective name for the branches of Indo-European in which the so-called Satem shift, the change of palato-velar *k^, *g^, *g^h into fricatives or affricates, did not take place, and the palato-velar consonants merged with plain velars (*k, *g, *gh). ... The Indo-European languages comprise a family of several hundred related languages and dialects [1], including most of the major languages of Europe, as well as many spoken in the Indian subcontinent (South Asia), the Iranian plateau (Southwest Asia), and Central Asia. ... A hydronym (from Greek hudor, water and onuma, name) is a proper name of a body of water. ... The Vistula (Polish: ) is with 1,047 kilometers (678 miles) the longest river in Poland. ... The Oder (or Odra) River (German: Oder, Polish/Czech: Odra, Ancient Latin: Viadua, Viadrus, Medieval Latin: Odera, Oddera) is a river in Central Europe (mostly in Poland). ... Hans Krahe (7 February 1898 — 25 June 1965) was a German philologist and linguist, specializing over many decades in the Illyrian languages. ... Old European (alteuropäisch) is the term used by Krahe (1964) for the language of the oldest reconstructed stratum of Indo-European hydronymy in Central and Western Europe. ...


It is not clear whether they were related to the Adriatic Veneti, a people whose language is attested in inscriptions dating from 6th to 1st centuries BC and is known to have been particularly closely related to the Italic languages (see Venetic language). Hydronyms attributed to the Vistula Veneti seem to show resemblances to those attested in the area of the Adriatic Veneti (in Northeastern Italy) as well as those attested in the Western Balkans that are attributed to Illyrians (for examples, linguistic comparisons and further reference see Gołąb 1992: 263-268), all of which may point to a possible connection between these ancient Indo-European peoples. However, some scholars prefer to consider the Vistula Veneti as a distinct group. Steinacher (2002: 32) presents the view that modern research establishes no relation of the Vistula Veneti to the Adriatic Veneti, the Veneti of Gaul, the North Balkan/Paphlagonian Enetoi (mentioned by Herodotus and Appian) or between any of these peoples. The Veneti (Enetoi in Greek) were an ancient people who inhabited todays northeastern Italy, in a area comprised in the modern-day region Veneto. ... The Italic subfamily is a member of the Centum branch of the Indo-European language family. ... Venetic is an extinct Indo-European language that was spoken in ancient times in the Veneto region of Italy, between the Po River delta and the southern fringe of the Alps. ... The Veneti (Enetoi in Greek) were an ancient people who inhabited todays northeastern Italy, in a area comprised in the modern-day region Veneto. ... Illyria (disambiguation) Illyrians has come to refer to a broad, ill-defined group of peoples who inhabited the western Balkans (Illyria, roughly from northern Epirus to southern Pannonia) and even perhaps parts of Southern Italy in classical times into the Common era, and spoke Illyrian languages. ... The Veneti (Enetoi in Greek) were an ancient people who inhabited todays northeastern Italy, in a area comprised in the modern-day region Veneto. ... The Veneti were a seafaring people who lived in what is now Brittany, France. ... This article or section does not cite any references or sources. ... Appian (c. ...


Scholarly consensus suggests that the Pre-Slavic population of the Vistula and Oder river basins had a North-West Indo-European character with close affinities to the Italo-Celtic branch but was definitely not Germanic (Gołąb 1992: 88). Italo-Celtic refers to the hypothesis that the Italic languages and the Celtic languages are descended from a common ancestor, Proto-Italo-Celtic, making them genetically related more closely than to any other language outside that group. ...


Origin of the ethnonym Veneti

According to J. Pokorny, the ethnonym Venetī (singular *Venetos) is derived from Proto Indo-European root *u̯en- 'to strive; to wish for, to love'. There seem to have been two possible accentuation patterns: Old High German Winida 'Wende' points to Pre-Germanic *Venétos, while Lat.-Germ. Venedi (as attested in Tacitus) and Old English Winedas 'Wends' call for Pre-Germanic *Venetós. Etymologically related words include Latin venus, -eris 'love, passion, grace'; Sanskrit vanas- 'lust, zest', vani- 'wish, desire'; Old Irish fine (< Proto-Celtic *venjā) 'kinship, kinfolk, alliance, tribe, family'; Old Norse vinr, Old Saxon, Old High German wini, Old Frisian, Old English wine 'Friend' (Pokorny 1959: 1146 - 1147; Steinacher 2002: 33). The Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) is the hypothetical common ancestor of the Indo-European languages. ... The term Old High German (OHG, German: Althochdeutsch) refers to the earliest stage of the German language and it conventionally covers the period from around 500 to 1050. ...


Historical sources on the Veneti

As an ethnicon, Veneti begin to appear in written records in 1 century AD. They are first mentioned as Sarmatian Venedi (Latin Sarmatae Venedi) by the Roman historian Pliny the Elder in Natural History (Liber IV: 96-97) and subsequently, under the name Venedi, by Tacitus in Germania (46). When comparing the Venedi to Germani and Sarmatae, however, Tacitus associates them with the former, stating that their habits are different from those of the Sarmatae. Pliny the Elder: an imaginative 19th Century portrait. ... Naturalis Historia, 1669 edition, title page. ... Gaius Cornelius Tacitus Publius or Gaius Cornelius Tacitus (c. ... Map of the Roman Empire and Germania Magna in the early 2nd century, with the location of some Germanic tribes as described by Tacitus. ...


In 2nd century AD, Ptolemy in his work De Geographia (III 5. 21.) mentions a people called Ouenedai along the southern shores of the Baltic, which he calls the Venedic Bay. The historical document Tabula Peutingeriana, originating from the 4th century AD, separately mentions the Venedi and the Venadi Sarmatae (see Gołąb 1992: 287-291, 295-296). A medieval artists rendition of Claudius Ptolemaeus Claudius Ptolemaeus (Greek: ; ca. ... The Geographia is Ptolemys main work besides the Almagest. ... The Tabula Peutingeriana (Peutinger table) is an itinerarium showing the cursus publicus, the road network in the Roman Empire. ...


In 551 AD Gothic author Jordanes in his book De origine actibusque Getarum (30-35) applied the name Venethi as a collective appellation for Slavs. Invasion of the Goths: a late 19th century painting by O. Fritsche, is a highly romanticized portrait of the Goths as cavalrymen. ... The Slavic peoples are the most numerous ethnic and linguistic body of peoples in Europe. ...


Archaeology

Polish archaeologist Jerzy Okulicz has interpreted Veneti as the possible bearers of the Pomeranian culture, an Iron Age archaeological culture in Poland. Elements of the Pomeranian culture, in particular its bell-shaped burials group, have been ascertained in the successive Przeworsk culture, as well as in the Milograd culture to the east where eventually the Zarubintsy culture arose. If correctly interpreted, these archaeological data suggest that from 3rd century BC onwards Veneti entered into an intense cultural contact with Proto-Germanic and Proto-Slavic peoples and eventually assimilated with the two groups (Okulicz 1986; Pleterski 1995). The Pommeranian culture is an Iron Age culture in Poland. ... The green area is the Przeworsk culture in the first half of the 3rd century. ... The Milograd culture (also spelled Mylohrad, also known as Pidhirtsi culture on Ukrainian territory) is an archaeological culture, lasting from about the seventh century BC to the first century AD. Geographically, it corresponds to present day southern Belarus and northern Ukraine, in the area of the confluence of the Dnieper... The Zarubintsy culture was one of the major archaeological cultures which flourished in the area north of the Black Sea along the upper Dnieper and Pripyat Rivers, stretching west towards the Vistula Basin from the 3rd or 2nd centuries BC until the 2nd century AD. It was identified ca 1899...


Relation between Veneti and Slavs

The Veneti were geographically and temporaly contiguous to the Proto-Germanic and Proto-Slavic peoples and were eventually assimilated by both groups, perhaps even more decisively by Proto-Slavs who later settled in the territory which erstwhile belonged to the Veneti. The Germanic peoples subsequently transferred the ethnonym Veneti to their new easterly neighbours, the Slavs. This tradition survived in German language where Slavs living in closest proximity to Germany were originally called Wenden or Winden (see Wends), while the people of the Austrian federal lands Styria and Carinthia referred to their Slavic neighbours as Windische. It should be emphasised, though, that Slavic peoples never used the ethnonym Veneti for themselves but were called thus only by the neighbouring Germanic peoples. Such transfers of ethnonyms from one group to another are not unusual and have occurred frequently in history. An analogous example is the name Böhmer, formerly applied by Germans to the Czechs, which originally was the name of a Celtic tribe Boii who dwelt in Bohemia before the Serbs (before they moved south) and later the Czechs. Similarly, the name of the Celtic Volcae (Proto-Germanic *Walhoz) was adopted as the collective name for the Celtic peoples and later for the Romance peoples (Schenker 1996: 3-4; Steinacher 2002: 28-29). Thor/Donar, Germanic thunder god. ... The Slavic peoples are the most numerous ethnic and linguistic body of peoples in Europe. ... Wends (German: Wenden, Latin: Venedi) is the English name for some Slavic people from north-central Europe. ... Boii (Latin plural, singular Boius; Greek Βοιοι) is the Roman name of an ancient Celtic tribe, attested at various times in Transalpine Gaul (modern France) and Cisalpine Gaul (northern Italy), as well as in Pannonia (today Western Hungary), Bohemia, Moravia and western Slovakia. ...


Aside from the already mentioned non-Slavic character of the Vistula and Oder river basin hydronymy, there are a number of further linguistic arguments attesting to the fact that Veneti were originally a different people from the Slavs. Considering that ancient sources locate the Veneti along the Baltic sea, linguist Alexander M. Schenker underlines that the vocabulary of the Slavic languages shows no evidence that the early Slavs were exposed to the sea. Proto-Slavic had no maritime terminology and even lacked a word for amber which was the most important item of export from the shores of the Baltic to the Mediterranean. In view of this, the very fact that Ptolemy refers to the Baltic as the Venedic Bay appears to rule out a possible identification of the Veneti of his times with the Slavs (Schenker 1996: 3-5). Schenker's conclusion is supported by the fact that to the east of the Ouenedai, Ptolemy mentions two further tribes called Stauanoi and Souobenoi, both of which have been interpreted as possibly the oldest historcial attestations of Slavs (Gołąb 1992: 291). A hydronym (from Greek hudor, water and onuma, name) is a proper name of a body of water. ... // Template:Othi fucking love ya babeeruses2 The Baltic Sea is located in Northern Europe, from 53°N to 66°N latitude and from 20°E to 26°E longitude. ... Proto-Slavic is the proto-language from which Old Church Slavonic and all the other Slavic languages later emerged. ... A medieval artists rendition of Claudius Ptolemaeus Claudius Ptolemaeus (Greek: ; ca. ...


Linguists agree in the opinion that Slavic languages evolved in close proximity with the Baltic languages, or, for that matter, originally formed a linguistic union with the Baltic languages, having later separated from the latter. The earliest origins of Slavs seem to lie in the area between the Middle Dniepr and the Bug rivers, where the most archaic Slavic hydronyms have been established (Gołąb 1992: 300). The mentioned area roughly corresponds with the Zarubintsy archeological culture which has been interpreted as the most likely locus of the ethnogenesis of Slavs. The Balto-Slavic language group is a reconstructed hypothethical language group consisting of the Baltic and Slavic language subgroups of the Indo-European family. ... The Slavic peoples are the most numerous ethnic and linguistic body of peoples in Europe. ... The Dnieper River (Belarusian: &#1044;&#1085;&#1103;&#1087;&#1088;&#1086;/Dnyapro; Russian: &#1044;&#1085;&#1077;&#1087;&#1088;/Dnepr; Ukrainian: &#1044;&#1085;i&#1087;&#1088;&#1086;/Dnipro; Polish: Dniepr; Latin: Borysthenes, Danaper) is a river (2290 km length) which flows from Russia through Belarus and then Ukraine. ... The Southern Buh, Bug, or Boh River (&#1055;&#1110;&#1074;&#1076;&#1077;&#1085;&#1085;&#1080;&#1081; &#1041;&#1091;&#1075;, Pivdennyi Buh in Ukrainian; Hipanis in ancient Greek) is entirely located in Ukraine. ... A hydronym (from Greek hudor, water and onuma, name) is a proper name of a body of water. ... The Zarubintsy culture was one of the major archaeological cultures which flourished in the area north of the Black Sea along the upper Dnieper and Pripyat Rivers, stretching west towards the Vistula Basin from the 3rd or 2nd centuries BC until the 2nd century AD. It was identified ca 1899...


According to Polish archaeologist Michał Parczewski, Slavs began to settle in southeastern Poland at no earlier than late 5th century AD, the Prague culture being their recognizable expression (Parczewski 1993). Europe in 450 The 5th century is the period from 401 - 500 in accordance with the Julian calendar in the Christian Era. ...


In linguistic terms, there is evidence that during the course of its evolution Proto-Slavic adopted some lexical elements from a foreign, centum-type Indo-European language. As these lexical elements have correspondences in North-West Indo-European dialects, it has been proposed that contacts of Proto-Slavs with the Veneti may have been the source for these borrowings (Gołąb 1992: 175; for detailed examples see p. 79-86). Proto-Slavic is the proto-language from which Old Church Slavonic and all the other Slavic languages later emerged. ...


Identifications of Veneti as Slavs

The Germanic tradition of designating the Slavs with the name of Wenden/Winden and Jordanes' appellation of Slavs by the name Venethi in 551 led some medieval chronists and historians to identify the ancient Veneti mentioned by Pliny, Tacitus and Ptolemy as Slavs. In addition, phonetic similarity and geographic proximity of the ethnicons Veneti and Vandali inspired a similar erroneous belief that the Germanic people of Vandals were Slavs as well (Steinacher 2004; see also Origins of Vandals). Such conceptions persisted into 16th century and resurfaced in 19th century where they provided the basis for interpretations of the history and origins of Slavs (Steinacher 2002: 31-35). Modern history has rejected such interpretations and clearly distinguishes two matters: one is the existence of several different ancient peoples by the name of Veneti, and the other one is the fact that Germanic peoples adopted that ethnonym for their easterly neighbours, the Slavs. The Slavic peoples are the most numerous ethnic and linguistic body of peoples in Europe. ... The Vandals were an East Germanic tribe, Germanic as defined by Tacitus, that entered the late Roman Empire during the 5th century. ... The Vandals were an East Germanic tribe, Germanic as defined by Tacitus, that entered the late Roman Empire during the 5th century. ... Veneti may mean: The Adriatic Veneti, Enetoi in Greek, a bygone people of north-eastern Italy who spoke an Italic language. ...


In 1980s some Slovene individuals proposed a theory according to which the Veneti were Proto-Slavs and bearers of the Lusatian culture along the Amber Path who conquered and settled the region between the Baltic sea and Adriatic Sea. This theory has been rejected by several Slovenian and other scholars as untenable (Skrbiš 2002). The Amber Road (in Polish: Szlak Bursztynowy, Jantarowy Szlak; in German: Bernsteinstraße; in Russian: &#1071;&#1085;&#1090;&#1072;&#1088;&#1085;&#1099;&#1081; &#1087;&#1091;&#1090;&#1100;) was an ancient trade route for the transfer of amber. ... // Template:Othi fucking love ya babeeruses2 The Baltic Sea is located in Northern Europe, from 53°N to 66°N latitude and from 20°E to 26°E longitude. ... A satellite image of the Adriatic Sea. ...


See also

Veneti may refer to several unrelated ancient peoples: The Veneti (Enetoi in Greek) of ancient northeastern Italy, in the region of Venice, who spoke the Venetic language, that was either an Italic language or very close to Italic. ... The Vandals were an East Germanic tribe, Germanic as defined by Tacitus, that entered the late Roman Empire during the 5th century. ... The Vends were a small tribe who in the 12th-16th century lived in the area around the town of Wenden (now CÄ“sis) in what is now north-central Latvia. ... Wends (German: Wenden, Latin: Venedi) is the English name for some Slavic people from north-central Europe. ...

References

  • Gołąb, Zbigniew (1992). The Origins of the Slavs: A Linguist's view. Columbus: Slavica Publishers, 1992. ISBN 0-89357-231-4.
  • Krahe, Hans (1957): Vorgeschichtliche Sprachbeziehungen von den baltischen Ostseeländern bis zu den Gebieten um den Nordteil der Adria. Mainz: Akademie der Wissenschaften und der Literatur, 1957.
  • Krahe, Hans (1954): Sprache und Vorzeit: Europäische Vorgeschichte nach dem Zeugnis der Sprache. Heidelberg: Quelle & Meyer, 1954.
  • Okulicz, Jerzy (1986). Einige Aspekte der Ethnogenese der Balten und Slawen im Lichte archäologischer und sprachwissenschaftlicher Forschungen. Quaestiones medii aevi, Vol. 3, p. 7-34.
  • Pokorny, Julius (1959). Indogermanisches Etymologisches Wörterbuch. Bern, München : Francke, 1959.
  • Parczewski, Michał (1993). Die Anfänge der frühslawischen Kultur in Polen. Wien: Österreichische Gesellschaft für Ur- und Frühgeschichte, 1993. Veröffentlichungen der österreichischen Gesellschaft für Ur- und Frühgeschichte; Bd. 17.
  • Pleterski, Andrej (1995). Model etnogeneze Slovanov na osnovi nekaterih novejših raziskav / A model of an Ethnogenesis of Slavs based on Some Recent Research. Zgodovinski časopis = Historical Review 49, No. 4, 1995, p. 537-556. ISSN 0350-5774. English summary: (COBISS)
  • Schenker, Alexander M. (1996). The Dawn of Slavic: an Introduction to Slavic Philology. New Haven: Yale University Press, 1996. ISBN 0-300-05846-2.
  • Skrbiš, Zlatko (2002). The Emotional Historiography of Venetologists: Slovene Diaspora, Memory and Nationalism. Focaal: European Journal of Anthropology 39, 2002, p. 41-56. [1]
  • Steinacher, Roland (2002). Studien zur vandalischen Geschichte. Die Gleichsetzung der Ethnonyme Wenden, Slawen und Vandalen vom Mittelalter bis ins 18. Jahrhundert(doctoral thesis). Wien, 2002.
  • Steinacher, Roland (2004). Wenden, Slawen, Vandalen. Eine frühmittelalterliche pseudologische Gleichsetzung und ihr Nachleben bis ins 18. Jahrhundert. In: W. Pohl (Hrsg.): Auf der Suche nach den Ursprüngen. Von der Bedeutung des frühen Mittelalters (Forschungen zur Geschichte des Mittelalters 8), Wien 2004, p. 329-353.

Further bibliography

  • William Bell (1850) in Notes Alfred's Orosius wrote about similarity of names Cwenas, Cwen, Gwent, Cwent, Gwyndyd, Gwenedd, Gynneth, Gwynne, Gwent, Went, Ven, Veneta, Veneti, Vindelicia, Venedicus, Vends, Windisch, Wendish, Wendic, Wends, Ouen, Owen, Ouenetoi, Ouenedai, Quenland.

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[- Noctivagus - Vampir-ForumRPG - NC17 -] (164 words)
Das Thema sind Vampire, die in einer Stadt namens Venedic leben.
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Die Stadt wurde von einem alten Vampir namens Cogta Vusin 1878 gegründet, um seiner Rasse einen Zufluchtsort bieten zu können.
NationMaster - Encyclopedia: Venedes (1553 words)
Venedes is the term used in a number of ancient texts, starting with Tacitus, to describe an ethnic group living (presumably) in Central Europe.
Some Slovene individuals claim, for example, that Venedes were the Proto-Slavs (the same root as in the name of Wends), an Aryan folk from Lusatian culture along the Amber Path who conquered and settled the region between the Baltic sea and Adriatic Sea.
Slowly, the Venedic nation went through a paradoxical development: it enlarged itself with all layers of the population, but on the other hand, the picture was narrowed, and the old political nation, which included several nationalities and religions, made place for a nation of Venedic-speaking Catholics only.
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